Anyway, here is the real reason why I posted. I need your help. Some of you may have been redirected through a Yahoo! Group, or I may have posted specifically on your blog asking for input. I would really appreciate it if you would take the time to let me know your opinion about the topic below.
I am a junior at
I know that I have two clear options if I do decide on large animal medicine. There is factory farming (particularly dairy industry, they are desperate for veterinarians) or there is private practice with small farms and pets. I am personally against factory farming, and have been working very hard to eat as local as possible and make conscientious food choices. What I would really like to do is go into private practice, but I have been told by my advisors and professors that this isn’t a wise choice.
I know that there is a certain practicality when it comes to farming. It is not like caring for a house pet – where every little ailment rushes you to the vet. I would like to know how often you utilize your local vet, and for what. Do you think there is a demand for private, large animal veterinarians in your area? Any opinion you have on this matter would help me a whole lot.
You can e-mail me privately (cpenrod19@yahoo.com) if you wish, or comment below.
Thanks so much!
12 comments:
Casey, we are in a rural area, but it's a bit different because we're near an urban area (Birmingham AL). Almost everybody in this county works in B'ham. But there are a lot of people with cows and horses here too.
I know the vets handle those, because there are a lot of pens in the back of their office! But their work is primarily with cats and dogs, I think. That is certainly the majority of what we see when we take our pets there. But I have no idea of how often they make "house calls".
Once I had a chicken with a hurt foot. She was more of a pet than anything else. I guess farmers would never think of taking a chicken to a vet -- since the visit would cost more than the chicken was worth. When I called the office to see if I could make an appt for my chicken... they kind of laughed at me. So I never took her. I figured if they'd never had to take appts for chickens, then they wouldn't know what they were doing anyway.
Well anyway if you'd like the phone number of these local vets - I think there are 3 or 4 of them in practice together - email me privately. They could probably answer your questions.
But if you do ever go into private practice, tell your receptionist never to laugh at peoples' pets!
Casey,
We almost never have vet help with our livestock. The problems are several fold:
1) The value of the individual animal is not high enough to warrant the services of a vet for the feeder pigs, sheep, chickens, ducks, etc. A vet would charge $175 just to come to our farm and it is about an hour to get to a vet. Then there would be the costs of the medications and time for the vet, etc. This would quickly exceed the value of the animal. Even for a breeder sow or boar it is questionable economics.
2) There are virtually no large animal / livestock vets left in our area. The one that we do work with when we have questions is mostly retired. All the other vets I have talked with told me they have switched to pet care because that is where the money is. It is understandable. There was an article in the NY Times about this a while back - that vets were getting out of farm animal care and focusing on pets.
3) We can not sell an animal for food if it had been treated with antibiotics. Probably the same for any other medications. We have one case of that - an older sow named Mouse. Once a piglet bit her tit too hard and it got infected and another time she got a cut on her foot that got infected. Both times the vet prescribed antibiotics. That cured the infections but she can never go into the food chain for selling because of that even if she weren't older.
If an animal went too far I would have to euthenazie it like I did Little Pig when she had a prolapsed rectum.
Fortunately we have almost never had any problems. No disease (knock on wood, brick and stone) with any of our animals in the fifteen years we have had livestock and only a few prolapses and the two infections in the sow named Mouse.
Cheers,
-WalterJ
PS. That's a beautiful bridge you're standing on in your About photo!
If I'd followed my heart I'd have become a vet.
I couldn't work on a factory farm. I'm sure it would be very depressing to see these animals treated inhumanely every day.
I've had pigs, cattle, horses and goats on my farm. I've also worked closely with sheep. Thanks to an excellent vet I've been taught a lot. After my third call for the same animal she said, "You can't afford to call me for everything. Pay attention." She taught me to pull kids and lambs, give shots, treat wounds, puncture rumens and let me assist with a c-section on a ewe and permanent catherization of a pet wether goat. She walked me through colic in horses and draining abscesses in cats that can't seem to stay out of fights. I like the challenges and variety that working with livestock brings. As much as I enjoy it, I'm not a vet. I NEED someone who cares about my animals' health.
Are you interested in visiting farms? Farm vets are invaluable. I couldn't always load a horse and drive 50 miles to the office. Being able to have the vet come here was the difference between life and death for some of my animals (we rescued for nine years).
Can you spend some time with a livestock vet? That should give you a good idea of what it would be like. I'm sure there'd be a lot of variety if you had an office and did farm visits. I once showed up at the office with a piglet in a crate. I turned it around so that other animals couldn't look in but then the piglet squealed and that was the end of a somewhat quiet waiting room. Dogs that have never seen pigs tend to bark loudly.
About the eagles - We see them all the time. There aren't as many inland in the winter because the lakes freeze. I saw two yesterday. We have osprey and a large variety of hawks and falcons too. They keep my farmcollies busy in the summer.
Hi Casey,
We live in a rural area, but are 6 miles from the tiny town that has a small animal/equine clinic - thank goodness. We also have another slightly larger town 15 miles away that also doe s equines/small animals. So we are n't way out like some of your posters. Nor are we a huge dairy. We are also small sustainable farmers - our sheep flock is maintained at 20-30 head, and we have one horse, 3 mini donks, 3 goats, 2 dogs and all the semi ferels [12].
I do a combination of things. I learn from my vet. I learn from the techs, books, other farmers when I can. You have to do a lot of er type vetting on your own - like gaping wounds in cats, etc. But I don't hesitiate to call my vet for the horse.
Our two clinics are somewhat different. One is more rural, more used to dealing with 'real' farmers, many of them old timers. They do not do sheep. Sheep vets are a real hard to find thing. Less people are raising them - and as one vet explained to me, it takes a lot of man power and effort to do a flock check/etc for the fee. In other words, vets don't mak e much money on sheep. They make a lot of money on horses, and there are many more wealthy horse owners. I bring my sheep vet out 1x a year just to do a followup with me on how we're doing, and I have him do other routine vetting while he's here. It may not be somthing many would do, but allows me to learn. We do all our own sheep shots, and routine care. We haven't had any lambing issues - yet - and you do what you can when er arises.
But if it was a cherished ewe, I'd call him.
The smaller clinic I mentioned has been indispensaple for me though - I trapped 20 ferels in the barn and spayed and neuteredt hthem there, with donations. The biggr clinic was less flexible about it all. I can bring an ear swab into the smaller clinic and ask for advice. I have a real relationship with them. {of course, this can happen in a big city too.]
I oppose factory farming too. I can't tell you what to do there - if you have a strong personaility and cold also report bad things, you might help rid the world of factory farming.
I say follow your heart. I think being a small clinic is important - every one has an opinion. Perhaps the people that are telling you not to have a small practice also don't know about the move to eat locally - this will help our farms. There are many small rural areas with smaller 2-5 acre farms. You just have to find the right clinic.
And you need to call and do informational interviewing with small clinics.If you want I can give you the names of my clinics and numbers. I wanted to be a vet, but couldn't handle the science.
Hi Casey,
It sure isn't easy to make a decision when the sometimes harshness of reality gets in the way of your passions and dreams.
As sad (or even wrong) as it may seem to some people, we are in the same basket as Walter. Because we live in mostly cattle country, there are still large animal vets, and they do make farm calls, but I've never had one come to the farm to tend to any of my animals.
When Joe raised cattle here, he did have a vet come out on a few occasions to treat cows with various problems, but a cow can be worth $1,000 or more. If you're also trying to save a calf, the value is even higher.
The large animal veterinary clinics I know around here all treat small animals as well--as has been already mentioned, that's where the money is.
That said, I do have a friend who also raises sheep (and on a larger scale than I do), and she talks regularly to her vet about treatment for animals, preventative medicine, etc. However, she also has raised beef cattle and always has at least one dairy cow on her farm. And I believe she's been working with this vet for over 20 years.
When I started acquiring barnyard animals, I pictured myself having a friendly relationship with a large animal vet who would regularly visit the farm (probably from reading all those James Herriot books!). Instead, like Robin, I learned to do most things myself. And, like Walter, there are times when there is no option but to put animals down. Things happen.
But I'm thrilled when I think about the success stories and the animals that I have saved--like the ewe we found about 1/4 mile away up a steep wooded valley who literally had had her back half torn apart by a coyote. This was several years ago, and she not only healed up just fine but also went on to give birth to the biggest, healthiest lambs each year. At age 11, she's now retired from motherhood and spends her days being spoiled and happy.
As long as the government doesn't outlaw 1% iodine (like they ridiculously did to the 7%) and peroxide, I think things will be fine! ; )
P.S. How funny. While typing my comment I was thinking about my friend Katherine (aka Shepherdgirl) and her sheep and horses and her vet and how she would reply to your questions--not knowing she was typing at the same time I was. . . ; )
Hi Casey,
I got here after reading on Walter's blog...
I'm lucky apparently to live on the closer side of that hour away from vets where he lives. I'm in VT, too, and I have used five different large animal vets. Admittedly three specialize in horses and I've never considered asking them to come deal with the other species here.
I like one the best, who deals with anything. Well, he doesn't know much about the farm birds, nobody seems to, but if I find some treatment that I want to try, he'll help with the Rx.
I mostly use the vet services for the horses because I take them places where health certificates and certain vaccines are required. With our cows, sheep, goats, and birds, we pretty much let nature takes its course, aided by access to good pasture or hay, supplemental grain and seed feeding for the birds. But I like knowing I can call someone and get some info if not some hands on help.
Every vet I've met who does farm calls works hard and sometimes long hours. I'm guessing that your values are such that you will chose the Right Path rather than the Easy Path. Not that there IS an easy path. *g* If you get good business advice along the way, you can work hard at a satisfying profession and take care of your financial needs as well. Good luck!
We use a vet very sparingly. Like Walter said, the cost or the visit usually exceeds the value of the animal. Also, the way that we farm seems to not generate a lot of sick animals. Also, our vet service is 40 miles away, so lots of times we can't get a vet here within half a day, so you had better be able to fend for yourself in an emergerncy. What I think would be great would be to have a more local Vet Tech who could stitch animals, etc. Last time I needed a vet was to stitch up a horse that got hurt in the woods. I couldn't get the vet to come out and ended up getting a dairy farming neighbor to sew him up. I paid him with a frozen turkey.
So I guess that my opinion is that there is a need for more large animal vets, but I wouldn't want to do it myself. Small animal vets have pretty reasonable working hours and conditions, while large animal vets get to work with potentially dangerous animals in often cold, dirty environments at all hours of the day and night, have to drive a lot of miles to get there, can't charge as much, and lots of times have a hard time getting paid at all.
I hope I don't come off sounding cranky, but the last thing you need is for someone to sugar coat the facts when you are trying to make as big a decision as this.
Hi Casey,
I'm afraid I'm just here to reconfirm what everyone else has said. I'd never call a vet for poultry, even though I know my birds as individuals and value all of them. When we had our bear attack, I did amateur home surgery on a turkey to remove hanging skin and feathers and clean the maggots out of its flesh--and I am proud to say that the turkey survived. It was just a financial reality--that was the chance I had to take.
If you want to be a large-animal vet but avoid the hideous factory-farm scene, you might want to specialize in equine, since my sense is that those are the people who'll call you up and spend the big bucks.
I commend you for listening to your heart. If I had my way, factory farming would be banned outright.
Casey - Rural area here, heavy on beef cattle, with enough dairy farmers to keep the 3 large animal vets busier than they want to be most of the time -- two also treat small animals at the clinics in town. Their fees are about half what I paid when I lived closer to a large metro area, and still I rarely use the vet's services for all the reasons other commenters have mentioned.
I turn to the vet when I'm stuck or need health papers for transport, or it's a procedure that needs to be performed at the vet's office or is beyond my current expertise. That's typical in this area, and it's what the vets seem to expect as well. In numbers, that translates to one farm call in the last two years, one heifer hauled to the clinic for dehorning & her bangs paperwork, two dogs neutered (one after a uterine infection treatment) and one office visit for a 10-year-old Aussie's limp to make sure the cause was arthritis in an old break and not a more recent injury I'd missed. Often as not I'll buy whatever wormers, vaccines, and antibiotics I need directly from the vet since he charges about the same as I'd pay elsewhere.
I think it would be difficult to make a good living as a small farm vet -- your professors probably are right in many respects to steer students toward more stable, profitable options. Doesn't mean your dream's not doable, just that it's a lot tougher way to make a living.
Hi Casey
I live in a small country town in west aussie. We have 3 vets here (population about 7,000)
Each one of those vets do large livestock but also smaller animals.
I think thats where the secret lies for you. Do both, at least until you make a name for yourself with large stud farms etc (where our local vets make good money)
Remember too, most of our inventors, discoverers and other legendary people were told not to do it/wasn't possible/could never be etc etc, follow your heart, talk to local vets, consider the fact you might move to make circumstances more viable, there is a lot to think about before considering a couple of opinions :)
I know it will work out for you, give it time and listen to the voice inside
cheers
Well said.
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